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- Newsgroups: comp.lang.c++
- Path: netcom.com!gmandel
- From: gmandel@netcom.com (Glenn Mandelkern)
- Subject: Re: Difficulty hiring people with C++ experience.
- Message-ID: <gmandelDKL1AF.K22@netcom.com>
- Organization: NETCOM On-line Communication Services (408 261-4700 guest)
- References: <gmandelDJAoyx.Kpr@netcom.com> <4ai727$of3@nrchh52.rich.nt.com> <4api46$c95@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu> <4bto2d$gnq@usenet1.interramp.com>
- Date: Wed, 3 Jan 1996 01:54:15 GMT
- Sender: gmandel@netcom5.netcom.com
-
- In article <4bto2d$gnq@usenet1.interramp.com>,
- Tom Donaldson <pp002882@pop3.interramp.com> wrote:
- >In article <4api46$c95@no-names.nerdc.ufl.edu>
- >lussier@aviator.cis.ufl.edu (Kyle Lussier) writes:
- >
- >> >new: pay attention to who is giving the interview and use your intuition
- >> >to judge their competency.
- >>
- >> LAUGH, hear that everyone? Go for a job interview, and interview the
- >> interviewer :), hilarious but probably true.
- >
- >Interviews SHOULD be a two-way street.
- >
-
- Absolutely! Hiring is full of risk for both sides, so it is really
- necessary for each side to understand the other.
-
- Sometimes interviews degenerate into final exams. It is as if the employer
- becomes the teacher and the candidate becomes the student who awaits the
- prize of a job. It is unfortunate when either party falls into this role
- instead of treating each other as respectable colleagues. Many employers
- fail to realize that they must sell their company in the same way that the
- applicant must sell himself and distinguish himself from the competition.
- Then again, many employers want obedient puppy dogs and can become
- quite arrogant, taking on the attitude that you should be grateful
- to be called. What a shame for something as progressive as software.
-
- Personally, I hate how hiring nowadays has turned into these series of
- endless interviews. I heard of one person who had to go through 15
- interviews for one software position which was then eliminated 6 months
- later due to layoffs. 3 interviews should be enough. Employers are
- getting way too cautious--the same way they are trying to avoid the poor
- hiring mistakes in choosing the wrong person, they can end up waiting way
- too long and have the best ones pass them by, get turned off or picked up
- by a more courageous employer. We hear that employers can be picky nowadays,
- but so can candidates with the right set of questions.
-
-
-
- >As an interviewee, I want to determine what kind of situation I
- >would be getting into. I want to work with folks who are
- >bright, innovative, open to new ideas, ambitious, team spirited,
- >and so on. Interviewees should have a good idea what a company
- >does going into an interview, and should have a clear idea what
- >they want from a company. It is too late to start considering
- >such things AFTER taking a job.
- >
-
- >As an interviewer, it is very refreshing to find an interviewee
- >who knows what he/she wants, and asks pertinent questions.
- >
-
- Some employers would find questions threatening, unfortunately.
- These employers choose a person who has great potential with
- skills A, B, and C, but is deficient in D. Then the employer
- extends the offer with the unwritten understanding that the candidate
- must prove his D capability on the job. If the candidate accepts
- and becomes a good student, he will probably bust his butt to
- get recognition from the boss for his D work. Meanwhile, the
- employer knew all the time that he wanted a workhorse, but harps
- on the D deficiency. It happens to college recruits all the time.
- Other people suffer from burnout. Given all the employers you can
- choose from, wouldn't you as a candidate want to know if you are
- dealing with such an employer?
-
-
- >In some ways, whether the interviewee interviews the
- >interviewers tells me whether the person is just looking for a
- >job (i.e., is looking for a place to put in time and get paid)
- >or is really interested in their career. I generally give a
- >thumbs-down to job-oriented folks; who can afford them?
- >
-
- You'd be surprised how few people take time to define such things.
- In an earlier article in this thread, someone stated he could walk
- along the streets of Boston and apply and get any old C++ job that he
- wanted to. I regret not having responded directly to that article,
- it really upset me to hear a fellow programmer taking that attitude.
- What is worse is that since a lot of employers are expecting applicants
- to take that attitude, they are lost as to what to do when a candidate
- who knows what he wants out of life expresses it in terms of the
- employer's product line. I just cannot understand how anyone could not
- do some research ahead of time and just settle for any job which occupies
- at least 8/24 hours per day, i.e., one third of your life. Then again,
- the prime concern for many is to just make the mortgage payment.
-
- Many technical interviews are arranged as follows:
- Manager: Hey, Subordinate, go interview this chap for me.
- Subordinate: Okay, when will he be here?
- M: In about an hour.
- S: Okay, I'll just ask him some C++ puzzles to see if
- he is any good. (why should I bother preparing?)
-
- Very little preparation is sometimes done by one or both sides.
- Everyone suffers as a result. Many times, neither side is really
- interested in executing the interview and it shows. They are sometimes
- executed to show upper management that warm bodies are walking through
- the door, yet none of them are as good as the kings of employment.
- I think employers need to realize that they at one point also had
- to go through interviews--what kind of treatment would they like
- extended to them?
-
- Still, interviews should never be the sole means of determining the ability,
- willingness and manageability a person brings to the workplace.
- Many introverted people, such as a large percentage of engineers,
- do absolutely horrible at interviews but are spectacular on the job itself.
- Many great programmers have a large stock of reference books and FAQ's,
- can you bring those to an interview? Many times, one is being tested
- at how well one interviews, not how well one knows C++. Thankfully,
- some companies are looking into alternate forms of determining a candidate's
- potential such as simulated take home problems.
-
- --
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Glenn Mandelkern "Hee, hee, hee, hee!" -- Questor the Elf
- gmandel@netcom.com "When passion runs deep,
- San Jose, CA you're playing for keeps" -- Keith Emerson
- Games, GUI's and Entertainment What does Motif sound like in the key of C++?
-
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